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Darth Vegeta
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Same way i see McCain. Though like Obama he's far from perfect. Except he does have experience and a spine not a hype.
The papers in Belgium are plain ridiculous. Already the media are portraying Obama as the greatest president in history!
candyfloss
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Obama has still NO political achievement, he just spoke about "Change", but these were only phrases. We should judge him because of his work, not his words.
By the way, the iranian regime is glad about Obamas election, I've even read.
An anonymous black man on the "L" in Chicago to a car full of strangers -
"Rosa Parks sat down. Martin Luther King marched. Barack Obama ran. And my grandchildren will fly."
For the first time in my life I have faith in my country, my government, and my generation.
"Rosa Parks sat down. Martin Luther King marched. Barack Obama ran. And my grandchildren will fly."
For the first time in my life I have faith in my country, my government, and my generation.
Wade1
3rd Level Orange Feather
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I sympathize with your reservations, but in all fairness, neither of the major party candidates was experienced: neither one has been president before. Either would be learning as he goes. (Neither one even has the so-called "executive experience" that some believe, I think inaccurately, to be essential to Oval Office success.)
They're both senators. They both have compelling biographies. They each have different but potentially useful life experiences. Did McCain have more life experiences? Well, sure--he's older. But it's fallacious to conclude that older people must necessarily make better presidents than younger people. I don't think most thinking people objected to the level of Palin's experience as much as they did to her capacities.
Either candidate was a gamble; we don't know what global developments would confront them, and even they don't know how they'd respond to them. But Obama's record of intellectual, community, legal and legislative experience is as promising as was McCain's record of military and legislative experience. He has the potential to do great things. He also has the potential to fade into indifference or stumble into disaster, but everyone has the potential to do those things; not everyone has the potential for greatness. He might just pull it off.
it's kind of unfair to say that obama is going to be the greatest president of all time, i agree with this, but i'm not going to be a negative ninny about it
i do frown at the idea that a certain number of people voted for mccain simply because of the "war effort"--this is ridiculous, as a strong percentage of these who voted this way would not even join the army or marines or whatever and let alone be in iraq
i'm not anti-mccain, but this mentality is just absurd and hypocritical. i've heard a lot of excuses from conscientious objector to only-child to college. guy, if your passion is not there, then you're not fully in support of it, you're just in support of sending other people in your place while you pretend to be a cheerleader so other people get distracted by the fact that all you're doing is sitting on the benches and being a coward. there are plenty of other people out there who are worse off or have some crazy diseases who push to try and go out there and support our soldiers, and i respect these people greatly regardless of what i might think of the conflict in iraq or somesuch
what i don't understand is the certain people who don't have that passion, but speak as if they have some kind of patriotism for it. it's fake and phony and comes off as corny and deceptive of your character and people should realize that and stop being distracted by your phony personality. make every effort to do what you're so-called passionate about or shut up, because it's a little bit too obvious you're more worried about the tax reform policies and your stupid money
i've not readily supported either mccain or obama but i did vote for one of them, and hopefully i was educated on something without the whiff of hypocrisy nipping at my heels. i just think people need to have a little shake-up to warn of how some people can be so phony
with that said, i guess we'll have to see what this "great hope for change" might do with our country in general if he isn't just all talk and no walk
i do frown at the idea that a certain number of people voted for mccain simply because of the "war effort"--this is ridiculous, as a strong percentage of these who voted this way would not even join the army or marines or whatever and let alone be in iraq
i'm not anti-mccain, but this mentality is just absurd and hypocritical. i've heard a lot of excuses from conscientious objector to only-child to college. guy, if your passion is not there, then you're not fully in support of it, you're just in support of sending other people in your place while you pretend to be a cheerleader so other people get distracted by the fact that all you're doing is sitting on the benches and being a coward. there are plenty of other people out there who are worse off or have some crazy diseases who push to try and go out there and support our soldiers, and i respect these people greatly regardless of what i might think of the conflict in iraq or somesuch
what i don't understand is the certain people who don't have that passion, but speak as if they have some kind of patriotism for it. it's fake and phony and comes off as corny and deceptive of your character and people should realize that and stop being distracted by your phony personality. make every effort to do what you're so-called passionate about or shut up, because it's a little bit too obvious you're more worried about the tax reform policies and your stupid money
i've not readily supported either mccain or obama but i did vote for one of them, and hopefully i was educated on something without the whiff of hypocrisy nipping at my heels. i just think people need to have a little shake-up to warn of how some people can be so phony
with that said, i guess we'll have to see what this "great hope for change" might do with our country in general if he isn't just all talk and no walk
Crushertitan
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This brings up an interesting point... To all Obama supporters I have a question. Can you name important pieces of legislation offered up, signed-on, supported, etc. by Obama? Can you list what experiences and talents beyond being a skilled orator make him most qualified to be the executor of the supreme executive powers of the presidency?
Mudslinging and arguments aside, I'm honestly curious. I dug quite a bit over several mediums and didn't find terribly much to his record that would speak highly of him as president yet. This isn't to say he WOULD without question make a poor president, merely that it's difficult to find any background in matters of this nature to properly judge him as the best choice. Have all his supporters come across evidence of executive experience and/or talent exhibited by Obama and I'm just missing it somehow?
This isn't about convincing anyone to change their opinions... the deed is done and Obama is our president. I just want to have some reassurance that he was chosen with proof behind his promises.
JackVanderson
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Can't we just drop this nonsense, there's no use in fighting over credentials and such. THIS conversation should have happened back when the campaign was still on, now it's just a pointless conversation that just induces anger. It's alittle late to be complaining about credentials and such, Obama is president, I voted for him. If you voted McCain okay, if you voted McCain and are now bitching because you're a sore loser, grow the hell up. Can we please close this before the madness gets worse?
juggernaut
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That's well put. As for Oval office experience, neither of them have one second's worth. And we voted on potential, not experience. We're just stuck hoping that whoever got it has the best ideas, intentions, and accountability.
The overtone of the whole election was
"I'll take Obama. Bonus that he's black, but anything is preferable to another republican." Or...
"I'll take McCain. The GOP has fucked this royally, but at least their not barely 100 days old in their job. We can't just throw it up in the air for anybody just to keep McCain/GOP out".
But it's crazy how the current state of things hides the 26+ years in gov't service McCain has compared to Obama's >6 months. Living longer doesn't qualify him, but he's been around through several wars, economic waves, and foreign issues... voting, participating, and learning and challenging. Bush fucked McCain out of this, not McCain. McCain was never trying to be Mr. Popular and was often times the black sheep of his party.
It's going to be interesting now having a democratic house, senate, and president as to how fast things move through the system. By himself, Obama can't really do anything. Hopefully, he puts the right people around him.
At the end of the day, I still fail to see the beacon of hope any brighter because he's black. So is this finally going to shut Jesse Jackson's mouth? How about Al Sharpton or the world's richest bigot Oprah Winfrey? Is this the pinnacle? Nope. Despite Parks, King, and Obama, we're still going to have to hear how repressed everyone was/is/will be. I'm an optimistic person, but this will not be the worldwide group hug everyone thinks it'll be.
Crushertitan
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Nonsense? I wasn't fighting over credentials at all and I fail to see how anything about my query could induce anger. I made it clear that I couldn't find much information regarding his experience or abilities and now I just want to know if anyone can let me know. There's not going to be any "HURRR! Y'all suck! You voted for someone who's not got 'sperience!" from me. Barack Obama is our president and I respect the man for making it to the white house. God willing, he'll be a damn great president.
What's wrong with asking for a few details? How was I bitching or mudslinging?
For the record, too, the conversation DID happen often. I was just left wondering because most of my circle of friends just liked his message but didn't know much about the man's track record. I want to talk to someone who does.
the_jimmy_james
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John F. Kennedy didn't have "experience". That didn't stop him from inspiring us to carry out the greatest mission that mankind has ever undertaken.
What's sad is this... the fact that certain people can't help but whine. Someone says "Yay! I'm happy that what I believed in came true!" But certain others can't seem to help saying, "Ha! You deluded fool. My opinions are immutable facts and nothing you ever say, including your own faith, convictions, and personal truths will ever matter because I'm an opinionated prick."
Seriously, if you don't like the fact that people are happy that America chose who they thought the better guy was...
...
...
Fuck off.
What's sad is this... the fact that certain people can't help but whine. Someone says "Yay! I'm happy that what I believed in came true!" But certain others can't seem to help saying, "Ha! You deluded fool. My opinions are immutable facts and nothing you ever say, including your own faith, convictions, and personal truths will ever matter because I'm an opinionated prick."
Seriously, if you don't like the fact that people are happy that America chose who they thought the better guy was...
...
...
Fuck off.
I'll keep this as objective as I can.
You keep talking about McCain's "experience". Where is it? Sarah Palin didn't put herself on the GOP ticket, JOHN MCCAIN PICKED SARAH PALIN. So what good was McCain's mythical experience when the one time a presidential candidate has to show he or she is most qualified for the job of president is to make a good VP pick and, by your own assessment, McCain blew chunks?
Can you see why it's disingenuous to dismiss Palin but to act like that's not a reflection on McCain? Most of us wouldn't know her from Eve if not for John McCain.
I'll take good judgment over experience any day. Plenty of halfwits have tons of experience, for all the good it does them.
Before you remain disappointed about the "President McCain" that will never be, check out these links. Maybe they'll help you realize that the GOP didn't offer a perfect candidate either.
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain
http://blog.barofintegrity.us/2008/...upport-senator-john-mccain-for-president.aspx
http://www.usvetdsp.com/smith_mc.htm
JackVanderson
TMF Master
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*facedesk*
*sigh*
Like you said, you don't see anything in what I said that targets you, therefore I wasn't targeting you. Okay? This is what I mean, everyone is so on edge that the slightest remark that isn't directed at one person or another, everyone interprets it against them. THAT is why I want this thread closed, it's only gonna get worse.
juggernaut
TMF Master
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Dear God.. you really don't read this stuff. If you scroll back up three posts, you'd see:
"But it's crazy how the current state of things hides the 26+ years in gov't service McCain has compared to Obama's >6 months. Living longer doesn't qualify him, but he's been around through several wars, economic waves, and foreign issues... voting, participating, and learning and challenging. Bush fucked McCain out of this, not McCain. McCain was never trying to be Mr. Popular and was often times the black sheep of his party."
I wouldn't have picked McCain for the Rep nominee, either. And in other threads, I've also stated that being one heartbeat away from President Palin is the scariest thing of all. I thought choosing her was another obvious campaign tactic and would be used as a counterweight to Obama's "minority" ticket. She can't find her ass with both hands. God forbid she'd have been president. Woman or not... NOT QUALIFIED.
See, i don't get to be rich off gov't salaries or sit and push papers with Ted Kennedy and take month long holidays. I don't get to play with the lives of 300 million people. I get to pay higher gas prices, be rewarded with higher taxes for owning my own business, and be subject to whatever they feel like trying at the moment. So yeah... I care. I pay an extra 10K every year just to own a business. And sending a trillion dollars overseas to knock cockroaches out of sand dunes ultimately comes back to us.
So who's got the best ideas? We have to wait and see. Arguing with me doesn't change anything. Telling all the people who didn't vote for Obama to just shut the fuck up doesn't change anything, except looking like a bigger asshole.
Wade1
3rd Level Orange Feather
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I think it's because it's finally a signal to the entire world, including fellow Americans, that the USA is putting its money where its mouth is. Instead of just mouthing the words "Anyone in the USA can grow up to be president" and then electing white male after white male, the electorate finally walked the walk and decided that the best person for the job happened to be someone who was nonwhite (as well as being someone not born into privilege). In terms of the horizons that opens to young and future Americans, that's huge. In terms of our global credibility, that's huge.
Because Obama happens to be black, because his race did not keep him out of the White House, the nation has shown itself to be, at some level, beyond a kind of bigotry that the rest of the world (and many Americans) assumed it could never get beyond (and which many other nations still have yet to get beyond themselves).
That's huge.
the_jimmy_james
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Then go start your own thread complaining and stop acting a fool at people who don't feel the same way. Please.
FeatherDaemon1
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So the only reason people voted against Obama was race? Let's not throw that around lightly. Soon enough anyone who opposes Obama on policy issues will be called racist. West Virginia is a conservative state. If Clarence Thomas who is a black conservative had run against say Joe Biden who is a white liberal democrat W.V. would have voted for the black guy. I highly doubt that you would see Biden sweep the South in that election. Hell, Bobby Jindall is Indian and he is the Gov. of Georgia.
This election had nothing to do with race. This election was based on the economy and the people frustration with President Bush. With that being said I am sure that Sarah Palin connected with many people in W.V. based on their shared values and not race.
I am a white conservative who accepts the fact that a black liberal is my President. I will support him where I can without sacrificing values which I hold dear. He is our President through a legal* and fair* election (Mickey Mouse and dead people voting aside). I hope that he does good job in the office. I will give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
I congratulate Mr. Obama for running a better campaign. John McCain was not my first choice and I felt that he really blew it.
We can have this debate without vitriol and name-calling. I would like to think that we are all still friends here.
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Wade1
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Louisiana.
RedMan01
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I couldn't care less about race, really if John McCain was a pure Native American, I wouldn't vote for him. I support Obama, although he is not my first choice, however I don't live in the US anymore, so I don't worry about the election that much.
What I am conscerned about is the following:
As a Mexican Indian, I worry for my fellow yeomen (Native Americans, Xicanos).
Homosexual rights
The Armenian Genocide
The near fanatical support of Georgia (the country not the state)
Obviously I will have a different view of the border than a conservative would,
I am not even going to bother debating it as last time we did it got ugly between
me and Vlad. If anyone is going to debate it, groovy lets just keep the insults and name calling (and this applies to the discussion in general) without Argumentum Ad Hominem or cultural, ethnic or racial insults.
I feel that a truly free nation would not step in regarding people's private lives unless they are harming themselves, someone else, animals or the six year old down the street or raping. It gays want to get married, so be it, if don't like it, just don't associate with gays who do get married, no one is here to tell people how to live.
The Armenian genocide was a terrible chapter of History just as bad as the Jewish Holocaust and almost 30 countries recognise it, its the oldest Christian nation on Earth and anyone who claims to be a Christian should support the recognition of their genocide.
Georgia has been oppressing an unrelated ethnic and cultural group who have always wanted independance, while many may not like Russia, they were IMO fair in wanting independance for the Osetts.
My 2c
What I am conscerned about is the following:
As a Mexican Indian, I worry for my fellow yeomen (Native Americans, Xicanos).
Homosexual rights
The Armenian Genocide
The near fanatical support of Georgia (the country not the state)
Obviously I will have a different view of the border than a conservative would,
I am not even going to bother debating it as last time we did it got ugly between
me and Vlad. If anyone is going to debate it, groovy lets just keep the insults and name calling (and this applies to the discussion in general) without Argumentum Ad Hominem or cultural, ethnic or racial insults.
I feel that a truly free nation would not step in regarding people's private lives unless they are harming themselves, someone else, animals or the six year old down the street or raping. It gays want to get married, so be it, if don't like it, just don't associate with gays who do get married, no one is here to tell people how to live.
The Armenian genocide was a terrible chapter of History just as bad as the Jewish Holocaust and almost 30 countries recognise it, its the oldest Christian nation on Earth and anyone who claims to be a Christian should support the recognition of their genocide.
Georgia has been oppressing an unrelated ethnic and cultural group who have always wanted independance, while many may not like Russia, they were IMO fair in wanting independance for the Osetts.
My 2c
the_jimmy_james
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Why do you have to be a white conservative and he a black liberal?
Don't you get it?
WE'RE AMERICANS! There's ONE America, not two. Why must people continue to care about these foolish labels and act like it matters? They. Do. Not!
This is the 21st Century. If the USA can grow up out of this "librul vs cunsurvatov" bullshit, then it'll be a better fucking place.
I mean no disrespect to you or your opinions or the things you hold dear, my friends but...
FUCK THIS NOISE!
the_jimmy_james
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Crushertitan
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When it comes crashin' down and it hurts inside!
Ya gotta take a stand, it don't help to hide!
If ya hurt my friends, then you hurt my pride...
I gotta be a man! I can't let it slide!
I am a real American. Fight for the rights of every man.
I am a real American... fight for what's right... fight for your life!
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