Why do folks hate rap music so much?

[Tickle Fiend]

Now THAT was poetry, practically crying to be set to music!
It rhymed, it scanned, it had an internal rythym and beat. Just reciting it out loud as a poem, I could hear the music it was written for.
That reminds me of the old time stuff I used to hear on the streets of NYC.
This is the kind of wordsmithing that is absent from most current and /or 'gangsta'' rap, which is why I'm so down on that stuff.
I wonder if the guy who wrote this can spin stuff that good off the top of his head the way the rappers I used to hear did? That would be freakin' awesome!

There are those rappers out there who still do it. There are great lyricist out there but it takes more than lyrics to become successful.

 

[Tickle Fiend]

And you actually regard this statement you just made as......"true"?

Does your same opinion apply to classical music?

If you read my entire statement you would have noticed that I said there are people who like rap but criticize it. How many of the people in hear have actually listened to rap. A lot of people have said that they don't care for it and don't like it. Those people who don't like rap shouldn't make certain statements because they don't know about rap. If someone says they don't like rap, that's cool. They may not like the sound or they just can't get into it. However, if someone says that rap songs talk about rape, that's completely different. It's statements like that that I have a problem with. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

 

[jaba]

Hah. Well, admittedly I'm certainly not the most mature forum member, but I like to think I've passed beyond the cooing, gurgling stage. I guess it's all a matter of perception. When one feels strongly about an issue, the tendancy is to regard those who disagree as ignorant, uninformed, or perhaps even gurgling cooing babies. 😉

I think you missed my point, Drew......it was in no way my intent to disparage you....quite the contrary....my point is that to define you as "non human" when you were younger, and by virtue of your youth "lesser developed" would be disparaging, in my opinion.....and so, to define rap as "not music" based upon your opinion of its "lesser developed " form....I guess I don't see how a lesser developed form of "music" (and you have acknowledged that rap is a lesser developed form) is classified as "not music"?....

Well, I'm hoping my arguments are at least as intelligent, convincing, and in respectful disagreement with those you mention. 🙂

Of course they are.....and they are fun to counter......or at least to attempt to counter....

One could argue that a child's fingerpainting is "art," but would you honestly expect to see it in an art gallery? If fingerpainting was the best mankind had to offer then yes, I suppose we would. But just like modern music offers melody, harmony, orchestra, etc, modern art gives us brushes, pallettes, shades, and hues.

So you base your definition of art, or music, on its level of sophistication? Art has to be "gallery worthy" to be art? Rap has to be "Drew worthy" to be "music"?

Imagine if you would, stick figure pencil art becoming popular, now rendering those with no artistic tallent to suddenly become artistes en vogue. That's basically what's happened with rap.

I agree with you wholheartedly in your assessment.....many rappers are talentless....a few are brilliant....but our opinion of their talent is still subjective, and subject to various interpretations.......


But how does the popularity of the genre, or its artists , relate to the validity of its definition as music?

Well then, that's where we differ. I wouldn't call it music. But of course, one must learn to crawl, before one can learn to walk.

Yes.....but whether we are young and "crawl", or mature, and "walk", we are still "human", by definition.....
And even if rap is judged to be "crude" .......

Is it not still by definition, "music"?

In the broadest sense of the term, I suppose so, but if I ordered food from a restaurant and got undercooked meat, or unripened fruit, I would definitely have a word with the manager.

As would I, Drew....but we would still be complaining about "food"......and we would still define it as such.... notwithstanding the crude and "lesser developed" condition of the meal?

 

[tickler_n_black]

I would like to see a "rap hater" go out to the urban areas where rap music is constantly being played and tell those young kids that they have no real talent if they rap and that the artists they listen to are no good and talentless. That will go over real well....

🙂
Are you trying to hint that if someone did that they would be beaten, shot or even killed by those "urban" kids who love rap? That's what it sounded like. Maybe that's why a lot of people dislike rap music ... because they think it promotes voilence, anger and hatred...?

After all, you just informed us that it "wouldn't go over real well" to tell a group of "urban rap youths" that you don't like that style of music. Why should someone come in harms way just because they don't like a certain style of music?

 

[Tickle Fiend]

🙂
Are you trying to hint that if someone did that they would be beaten, shot or even killed by those "urban" kids who love rap? That's what it sounded like. Maybe that's why a lot of people dislike rap music ... because they think it promotes voilence, anger and hatred...?

After all, you just informed us that it "wouldn't go over real well" to tell a group of "urban rap youths" that you don't like that style of music. Why should someone come in harms way just because they don't like a certain style of music?

I listen to rap and I've never wanted to harm anyone from listening to it. It's never made me angry or develope hate towards anyone. You're right though, "they" do think that rap promotes those things, but they're wrong.

 

[CitY of MicA]

Ah, but appearances are often deceiving, my good Jaba. A body can appear lifeless when it is merely at rest, gaining strength. 😀 But you asked for a response, and you shall have it, sir!

Mikey's little history lesson and subsequent comments only serve to support what I've been saying. He's quite effectively demonstrated that in order for rap to qualify as music, we must broaden the definition of music to include all the stepping stones of it's development through history. This is akin to redefining "car" to include any historical mode of transport, to include horse and buggy, or even the wheel. This does not speak well for rap. If qualifying rap as music requires us to broaden our definition of music to include less developed forms of it, then it suggests that rap is a step backward in music development, a GIANT step in my personal opinion.

I personally don't share Mikey's need to include all historical forms of ritual chants, wailings and utterances in our definition of music. I think it's far more reasonable to define music as what is taught by schools of music--That which is defined by the chromatic 12 note scale, the components of today's scales and modes. From these scales and modes are derived virtually all styles of music of the last several centuries.

That is what I'M talking about when I say rap is not music. It is at best, atonal. At worst, monotonal. In some cases a musical backdrop is included, as in the clip ticklishgiggle provided. The result is a combination of music and dissonance, being passed off as music. This is analogous to the guy who instead of showering away his offensive BO, splashes on cologne in an attempt to justify his odor, but it just doesn't work.

I wasn’t redefining music to accommodate rap, at all. I was attempting to supply a definition that properly takes into account all music of which we are familiar; and I just like arguing with people 😉 . If you read what I wrote, the hip-hop music that I mentioned comfortably fits into what I would submit is a deficient and narrow definition of music: that is to say a definition that states that melody and harmony must be present in order for it to be music. Anything I’ve ever heard from A Tribe Called Quest (for ex. Jazz and Buggin’ Out, Can I Kick It, Relax Urself, Check the Rhyme) contains both melody and harmony. Cypress Hill (Phuncky Feel One, Break ‘Em Off Some, I Ain’t Goin’ Out Like That, Insane in the Brain, I Wanna Get High, Latin Lingo) appear to always use a bass line and employ harmony, and some of the tracks find them mixing rap with singing (pitched); the more recent stuff (Rock Superstar) is more rock-oriented with rap on top. Run DMC (Rock Box, King of Rock) is an obvious example of a group incorporating both melody and harmony. So are the Beastie Boys (Body Movin’, Sabotage, So What’cha Want, Shake your Rump). Snow’s music (Informer, Runaway), as I mentioned earlier, has a tune or principal melody in it’s rap and has harmony, too. Nas (The World is Yours) and Boogie Down Productions (My Philosophy) seem to produce material with melody and harmony. As far as I can tell, the only artists that I’ve mentioned where the prescence of melody and harmony are questionable are Public Enemy (Black Steel in the Hour of Chaos); they seem to utilize enough found sound techniques as to rely far less on these elements.

That would be pretty cool if rap was atonal. I’m not familiar with what you were referring to specifically. But atonality was of 20th century origin and that would be an indication of rap being a step forward from other popular music (which rarely moves beyond the realm of 19th century harmony), if it were true (I don’t believe it is).

The reason we need a broader definition of music than the first one stated in this thread is because it doesn’t account for all sorts of music: old and new and from Western culture and outside the West. But we really don’t have to go back very far in history for this to be the case. If our definition of music specifically suggests that melody and harmony are mandatory in order for it to be music, suddenly a drum solo is not music. A solo singer or instrumentalist playing solo who can only produce one tone at a time isn’t music. And Jimi Hendrix’s version of the Star Spangled Banner is constantly going in and out of what we defined as music in a four minute span (any time there is no definite pitch coming out of his amplifier). Those are just a few examples of the problem I have with defining music as necessarily incorporating melody and harmony.

 

[jaba]

🙂
Are you trying to hint that if someone did that they would be beaten, shot or even killed by those "urban" kids who love rap? That's what it sounded like. Maybe that's why a lot of people dislike rap music ... because they think it promotes voilence, anger and hatred...?

After all, you just informed us that it "wouldn't go over real well" to tell a group of "urban rap youths" that you don't like that style of music. Why should someone come in harms way just because they don't like a certain style of music?

Therein lies a big part of the problem with rap, T I B.....some people, understandably prefer not to explore the art form because of the idiocy and antics of some of the artists and followers....some folks are not gonna risk getting a "cap peeled in the ass " just to try to appreciate hip hop at a club or concert......I have, on occasion....the group "Outkast" is brilliant, and well worth the effort, in my opinion....despite the opinion of some here that all rap is "stupid"......

The problem with trying to appreciate the beauty of the Watts Towers, is that you have to go through Watts to get to it......

 

[primetime]

TIB, i guess you took what i said the wrong way. It's amazing that people "translated" my comment into violence. Nowhere in my words did i say that you would see violence if you were to go to the urban youths and tell them your views on rap. it's almost like that's the stereotype of rap music. Can violence happen? Of course. But violence is also not likely to happen as well.

What i meant by those comments is that by insulting rap MUSIC and saying that the artists and producers have NO talent, you are indeed insulting people and their tastes. How would you feel if someone told you that you had no talent, but yet millions of people love what you do? TIB, i am going to use you as an example. You are a fine video clip producer (in my opinion), but what if someone came to you and said you have no clue on how to film? What if they say you copied off MTJ productions and that your camera angles are terrible, your edits are bad, you have no idea how to tickle a person and your videos promote homosexuality (f/f)? They go on to show examples on what "video production" is supposed to be like, then they show yours on what not to do. You would laugh the person off and dismiss their opinions, or depending on exactly what they would say, you could get upset (which i have actually seen you do before when people criticize your work).

My point is, how can anyone come on here, claim rap is not music and think fans of the genre are not going to get "miffed"? Which brings me to the poster Tickle Anime.

HELL YEAH i take rap criticism personal. I have a bunch of close minded people telling me that the music I grew up on, the music that i listen to, the type of music where i have had friends try to get into the scene and become a success, are a bunch of no talent people and the music is not really "music". How would you feel? As for your comments "Vocal talent isn't true, unless you're changing your voice", that simply tells me you have absolutely no clue on what rap is. Not just anyone can go out and perform rap vocals. Listen to guys like Snoop, 2Pac, Ice Cube, and Eminem for example. The styles are unique and no one else can rhyme the exact same way they do. It DOES take talent to do this. Trust me, it is very difficult to freestyle rap and sound GOOD.

As for your comment "You took this to personal which means you are making yourself lose a debate. When you take things to the point of trying to insult the other person with out a reason behind it, excluding getting mad. Than you are not doing so good. Als I'd gladly tell Snoop dog, he should stop being gangster, and please rap to help out. Though he'd probably try to say I was nobody, or that my mom is something of hore. Than I'd only feel that I was more right, and people would laugh, but it's only cause the people around are in that gangster fade." Do you even know what you are writing? The whole topic of this thread is about rap. That would include "clean rap" and "gangsta rap". When you said you would go to Snoop and tell him to rap to help out, that is not the point I am making. Why don't you go to Snoop and tell him he has no vocal talent? It doesn't matter if he is rapping about charities or if he is rapping about gangs. It's about his talent.

As for "positive" songs from 2pac and Ice Cube. I guess you don't listen to their music. Here are two songs (1 from each) that you should listen to and play. Tell me these two songs are negative...

Dear Mama by Tupac Shakur

You are appreciated...

When i was young, me and my mama had beef
17 years old kicked out on tha streets
Though back in tha time, i never thought i'd see her face
Ain't a woman alive that can take my momma's place
Suspended from school, scared ta go home
I was a fool with tha big boys breaking all tha rules
Shed tears with my baby sister
Over tha years we wuz poorer than tha other little kids
And even though we had different daddies
Tha same drama when things went wrong we blamed mama
I reminised on tha stress i caused, it wuz hell
Hugg'en on my mama from a jail cell
And who'ed think in elementary, heeeey i'd see tha penitentiary
One day
Running from tha police, that's right
Momma catch me--put a whoop'en to my backside
And even as a crack fiend mama,
Ya always was a black queen mama
I finally understand for a woman
It ain't easy--trying ta raise a man
Ya always wuz commited, a poor single mother on welfare,
Tell me how ya did it
There's no way i can pay ya back
But tha plan is ta show ya that i understand.
You are appreciated......



Chorus
Laaaaady, don't cha know we luv ya
Sweeeet laaaady, place no one above ya
Sweeeet laaaady, don't cha know we luv ya

Ain't nobody tell us it wuz fair
No luv for my daddy, cause tha coward wuzn't there
He passed away and i didn't cry
Cause my anger, wouldn't let me feel for a stranger
They say i'm wrong and i'm heartless
But all along i wuz looking for a father--he wuz gone
I hung around with tha thug's and even though they sold drugs
They showed a young brother luv
I moved out and started really hang'in
I needed money of my own so i started slang'in
I ain't guilty cause, even though i sell rocks
It feels good, putting money in your mailbox
I love paying rent when tha rents due
I hope ya got tha diamond necklace that i sent to you
Cause when i wuz low, you was there for me
Ya never left me alone, cause ya cared for me
And i can see ya coming home after work late
Ya in tha kitchen trying ta fix us a hot plate
Just working with tha scraps you wuz given
And mama made miracles every thanksgiving
But now tha road got rough, your alone
Trying ta raise two bad kids on your own
And there's no way i can pay ya back
But my plan is ta show ya that i understand
You are appreciated.....



Chorus
Laaaaady, don't cha know we luv ya
Sweeeet laaaady, place no one above ya
Sweeeet laaaady, don't cha know we luv ya

Pour out some liquor and i remenise
Cause through tha drama, i can always depend on my mama
And when it seems that i'm hopeless
You say tha words that can get me back in focus
When i wuz sick as a little kid
Ta keep me happy theres no limit to tha things ya did
And all my childhood memories
Are full of all tha sweet things ya did for me
And even though i act craaaazy
I got ta thank tha lord that ya maaaade me
There are no words that can express how i feel
Ya never kept a secret, always stayed real
And i appreciate how ya raised me
And all tha extra love that ya gave me
I wish i could take tha pain away
If you can make it through tha night, there's a brighter day
Everything'll be alright if ya hold on
It's a struggle
Everyday gotta roll on
And there's no way i can pay ya back
But my plan is ta show ya that i understand
You are appreciated.......



Chorus
Laaaaady, don't cha know we luv ya
Sweeeet laaaady, place no one above ya
Sweeeet laaaady, don't cha know we luv ya, sweeeet laaaady

Laaaady...[fades]...laaaady


Until We Rich by Ice Cube w/Krayzie Bone

(Intro)
Nigga the mess is sticky which you don't got
Just struggle and don't stop, until we drop (drop)
Krayzie Bone and Ice Cube
(the best thing in life in life is life)
(get your grind right, get your grind right 3x)

Look into my eyes if you want to know me
Before you hynotized homey what do you see
A nigga that's just a little bigger than dealers
A hustler count figures ain't pulled no triggers

Can you dig us, we be the ultimate lick
Weez the hitters, that make the ultimate hits
Kinda bossey, kinda bossey
It's gotta be done my way, do what the fuck i say

Top of the pyramid, homey what i tell you
If what need is westside, then brother you hit the cellar
Bring me my slippers, black robe and my globe
And i could rule the world with my eyes closed

(Chorus) x2
Krayzie-
See the mess is sticky when we don't got
Until we filthy rich and on top (you want to get it it's yours)
Nigga the mess is sticky which you don't got
Just struggle and don't stop until we drop (drop)
(Krayzie bone and Ice Cube)

To all the little homies that's watching TV
I see you tryin to be an OG like me
Chasin' dreams, pullin' more schemes for wealth
But the best thing in life is health, be yourself playa

Television it'll keep your ass wishing forever
You'll never get you life together
Dont' talk about death, i've got too much life to live
Too many orders to give what it is

sho biz,
taught you what a trick and a ho is
Showed you what a six-ty fo is
Lord knows, in god we trust
and everybody in the world wanna be like us

(Chorus) x2

To the kids in the world that's waiting for wealth
Waiting for health, you better do for self
Homey that's your last cut
Forget about the fast buck, boy, get you ass up

People use your brain to game do something that ain't never been done
And we can spin huns
Light our ass with twenties, light our joints with ones
Throw away the guns, have nothing but fun

And homey we could do that shit
Police have a fit, when your papers legit
We gotta get off the phone, we gotta teach our own
Send your baby to school and she'll come back grown

We gotta talk to our gramma's
And she'll help us throught them dark halls, and them pit falls
Everybody know we got the world to game
We gotta stop the pain, lord stop the rain

(Chorus) x2

(Outro)
Keep going, little homey why you slowing?
Keep rollin, little homey why you slowin?
Keep rollin, little homey why you slowin?
Keep rollin, rollin, rollin, rollin

Krayzie-
Hey thugs, the world is yours (13x to fade)


Now tell me, are those songs "negative"?

I guess you didn't understand my sports analogy. I don't think you understand the point of this thread. The point of this thread is an opportunity for people to discuss why they do not like rap music and not to spew their idiocy in another thread that is trying to talk about positive aspects of a deceased person. If you do not like rap, don't go into a thread where it is not asking for a negative opinion. I created this thread to get my opportunity to debate those who do not like the genre and say it is not music. It is music. The people who do not like rap because they just don't like the style is okay, but the people who say it is not music is where i have the problem. If is not music, then what is it?

 

[Tickle Fiend]

Anyone who makes the argument that rap should "help out" has no idea what they are talking about. There are lots of rap songs that have messages to them. Kanye West's song "Diamonds From Sierra Leone" helped to make people, especially rappers, think twice about the jewelry that they purchase. But no one has to send a message in their music for it to be good. No genre's sole purpose is to send a message or "help out." Hip-hop is helping out just like pop, rock, R&B and any other type of music. Good music doesn't have to send what you may feel is a good message. Rappers are just as talented as other performers. And it's ignorant comments like the one by Tickle Anime about Snoop that should show you that you dislike rap for reasons that are unfounded. You look at rap and you hate it, but maybe you should listen.

 

[SlaverTickler]

1) It demeans women. Weather the women in the video know it, or care they are being degraded by thugs who can put FUCK TRUCK BUCK SUCK all together in a few lines.

2) It is violent, alot of it is violent. It doesn't say "I Came from this, let work together to fix it" it say "If you fuck with me I will get my boys, and shoot up you back yard!"

3) It demean black people, if using the N-word is bad when a white person does it, it should be considered 1,000 x Worse when a black guy says it. When was the last time you heard a white guy say "Yo my Cracker!" or honky or mao or any other sler... nope me niether.

4) I promotes the negatives of the comunity it was porn from. Do you want your kids to grow up to be a gangsta, pimp, or Drug dealer... I don't watch alot of music vids, but when the man say "I've got ho's in different area codes" it doesn't seem very good.

Thats not to say that here hasn't been good rap. Run DMC were cool, Beaty Boys were fun, and Will Smith was very good. But today if your not using 4 letter word, preaching about the "values" of being a thug, or talking trash about women, your stuff doesn't seem to sell.

In the end it just seems like angry music, and when I listen to music I want it to cheer me up. Thats why I listen to to it on my way home from work.

 

[SlaverTickler]

1) It demeans women. Weather the women in the video know it, or care they are being degraded by thugs who can put FUCK TRUCK BUCK SUCK all together in a few lines.

2) It is violent, alot of it is violent. It doesn't say "I Came from this, let work together to fix it" it say "If you fuck with me I will get my boys, and shoot up you back yard!"

3) It demean black people, if using the N-word is bad when a white person does it, it should be considered 1,000 x Worse when a black guy says it. When was the last time you heard a white guy say "Yo my Cracker!" or honky or mao or any other sler... nope me niether.

4) I promotes the negatives of the comunity it was porn from. Do you want your kids to grow up to be a gangsta, pimp, or Drug dealer... I don't watch alot of music vids, but when the man say "I've got ho's in different area codes" it doesn't seem very good.

Thats not to say that here hasn't been good rap. Run DMC were cool, Beaty Boys were fun, and Will Smith was very good. But today if your not using 4 letter word, preaching about the "values" of being a thug, or talking trash about women, your stuff doesn't seem to sell.

In the end it just seems like angry music, and when I listen to music I want it to cheer me up. Thats why I listen to my Ipod on my way home from work.

Take Care PrimeTime

ST

 

[primetime]

Again, another poster who looks at rap and sees nothing but violence. Let me ask this to the "rap haters". Do you think "gangsta rap" is the ONLY version of rap music there is? That is what seems to be the problem. People are using "gangsta rap" as though it is the only version of rap there is. My goodness people, you act like "gangsta rap" is the only version there is. Wake up and smell the freakin' coffee.

Do I like gangsta rap? Yes, some of it, not all of it. I only really listen to 2pac, Ice Cube, NWA, Mack10, Snoop and other "West Coast" rappers. Do I agree with everything they are rapping about? No, but I can see where they are coming from. All you "rap haters" have never walked in these artists shoes and lived their lives, so I find it amazing you can criticize them. They rap about what they know. Rock musicians do the same thing. And before you criticize the rap artists for illegal drugs, MAKE DAMN SURE you criticize the Heavy Metalers for they way they use illegal drugs too. Kurt Cobain, what happened to him? The ills of society affects ALL WALKS OF LIFE, not just rap artists.

As for the use of the "N word". Please see a thread in the Politics forum and find the thread about the use of the "N word". There, you will find arguments for an against it.

As for demeaning women in videos. Oh, like the Rock and Heavy Metal videos show women in the most innocent manner. Give me a break. You people know better than that.

As for the using the word "bitch". Funny, no one ever complains about the artist you had the hit song "I'm a bitch", but if a rapper uses it, all woe is the world. To get it straight (again), the use of the word bitch refers to the women who DESERVE to be called a bitch. No rap artist uses the term on a woman who is trying to make something of herself. No rapper uses the term on a woman who they respect and love. They are referring to the women who are bitches. Once again, I am going to show lyrics from 2pac and Ice Cube and it will tell you WHY the term Bitch is used. Now, can someone actually READ the damn lyrics instead of brushing it aside and think they know why they use the term. Can you do that?

A bitch is a bitch by N.W.A.

[eazy-e]
Oh, shit. i guess there's one less bitch you gotta worry about.

[narrator]
Let's describe a certain female. a female with the disease of character
And attitude. if you will, a snob. however, in a view of nwa...

[ice cube]
A bitch is a bitch (bitch)
So if i'm poor or rich (word up)
I talk in the exact same pitch
Now, the title bitch don't apply to all women
But all women have a little bitch in 'em (yeah)
It's like a disease that's plagues their character
Takin' the women of america (yeah)
And it starts with a letter b
It makes a girl like that think she better than me (bitch)
See, some get mad and some just bury
But, yo, if the shoe fits wear it (wear it)
It makes 'em go deaf in the ear
That's why when you say 'hi' she won't say 'hi'
Are you the kind that think you're too damn fly?
Bitch eat shit 'n die (ha, ha)
Ice cube comin' at you at crazy pitch
(why?) i think a bitch is a bitch

'who the fuck you think you're callin' a bitch you little ? muthafucka?
I dunno who the fuck you think you're talkin' to. let me tell you one
Muthafuckin' thang, i'm not a...' [eazy e] 'bitch, shut the fuck up.'

Yo, you can tell a girl that's out for the money (how?)
She look good and the bitch won't phony
She ain't no dummy she's rather conniving ...
Yo, bitch fuck when i'm driving
See a young nigga that's striving
You're thru' without a bmw
That's why a bitch is a bitch
I guess, or ether p-m-s
Here, test the girl that's kinda snobby (a'ight)
And i bet you dis a nigga is her hobby
And after she finished the test
Write today a b-i-t-c-h
And watch her get mad 'cause she know it's true (she know it)
But a nigga like me, i say 'fuck you'
Do like ice cube, slam her ass in a ditch (slam her ass)
'cause a bitch is a bitch

'why i gonna be a bitch?'
'i ain't call you no bitch. if you'd listen to a goddamn song it'd tell
You what a bitch is.'
'fuck the song 'cause i'm not no muthafuckin' bitch.'
'i didn't say you was a bitch.'
'fuck you, punk-ass nigga!'
'fuck you, bitch!
'fuck you! who the fuck you think you are?
'fuck you! suck my dick, bitch!

I once knew a bitch who got a slack
'cause she playing me like she was all that
A bitch can be your best friend talking behind your back (yeah)
About who's fucking who and who's getting fat
Look at yourself for me, (look bitch)
Now do you fall in this category?
Or you're the kind that won't blink
'cause you don't think, yo, shit stinks
Luckily i haven't had a drink
'cause i'll down your ass
Than i'll clown your ass
'cause the niggas i hang with ain't rich (i ain't rich)
We're all saying 'fuck you bitch!' (word up!)
Now, what i can do with a hoe like you
Been your ass over then i'm thru'
? that you see ice cube ain't takin' no shit
(why?) 'cause i think a bitch is a bitch

[narrator]
There you have it. the description of a bitch. now ask yourself,
Are they talking about you? are you that funky, dirty, money-hungry,
Scandalous, stuck-up, hair piece contact wearing bitch? yep, you
Probably are.

Bitch!


Wonder why they call you Bitch by Tupac Shakur

Chorus:

You wonda why they call u bitch
You wonda why they call u bitch.
You wonda why they call u bitch
You wonda why they call u bitch.
You wonda why they call u bitch
You wonda why they call u bitch.


Look here miss thang
Hate to salt your game
But yous a money hungry woman
And you need to change.


In tha locker room
All the homies do is laugh.
High five's cuz anotha nigga
Played your ass.


It was said you were sleazy
Even easy
Sleepin around for what
You need


See it's your thang
And you can shake it how you wanna.
Give it up free
Or make your money on the corner.


But don't be bad and play the game
Get mad and change.
Then you wonda why these muthafuckas
Call you names.


Still lookin' for a way out
And that's ok
I can see you wanna stray
There's a way out.


Keep your mind on your money,
Enroll in school.
And as the years pass by
You can show them fools.


But you ain't tryin' to hear me
Cuz your stuck,
You're headin' for the bathroom
'bout to get tossed up.


Still lookin' for a rich man
You dug a ditch,
Got your legs up
Tryin' to get rich.


I love you like a sista
But you need to switch
And that's why they called
U bitch, i betcha.



Chorus
You wonda why they call u bitch
You wonda why they call u bitch. i betcha.
You wonda why they call u bitch
You wonda why they call u bitch. i betcha.

You wonda why they call u bitch
You wonda why they call u bitch. betcha.
You wonda why they call u bitch
You wonda why they call u bitch.


You leave your kids with your mama
Cuz your headin' for the club
In a skin tight miniskirt
Lookin' for some love.


Got them legs wide open
While you're sittin' at the bar
Talkin' to some nigga
'bout his car.


I guess he said he
Had a lexxxus, what's next?
You headin' to his car for some sex


I pass by
Can't hold back tears inside
Cuz, lord knows
For years i tried.


And all the other people
On my block hate your guts
Then you wonda why they stare
And call you slut.


It's like your mind don't understand
You don't have to kill your
Dreams ploten'
Schemes on a man


Keep your head up, legs closed, eyes open
Either a nigga wear a rubber or he die smokin'
I'm hearin' rumors so you need to switch
And niggas wouldn't call you bitch, i betcha.



Chorus
You wonda why they call u bitch
You wonda why they call u bitch
You wonda why they call u bitch
You wonda why they call u bitch. i betcha.

You wonda why they call u bitch
You wonda why they call u bitch. betcha.
You wonda why they call u bitch
You wonda why they call u bitch.


I guess times gettin' hard
Even harder for you
Cuz, hey now, got a baby
On the way now


More money from the county
And thanks to the welfare
You're about to
Get your hair done.


Got a dinner date
Can't be late
Trick or treat, sweet thang
Got anotha trick to meet.


The way he did it
It was smooth
Plottin' while he gamin' you
So baby, peep tha rules.


I shoulda seen it in the first case
The worst case
I shoulda never called you back
In the first place.


I remember back in high school
Baby you was fast
Straight sex
And barely move your ass.


But now things change
Cuz you don't look the same
Let the ghetto get the best of you
Baby, that's a shame


Caught hiv and now you 'bout to be deceased
And finally be in peace.


So where your niggas at now
Cuz everybody left
They stepped
And left you on your own


See i loved you like a sista
But you died to quick
And that's why we called u bitch, i betcha.



Chorus
You wonda why they call u bitch
You wonda why they call u bitch. i betcha.
You wonda why they call u bitch
You wonda why they call u bitch. i betcha.

You wonda why they call u bitch
You wonda why they call u bitch
You wonda why they call u bitch
You wonda why they call u bitch.


(tupac speaking)


Dear ms. deloris tucker
Keep stressen me
Fuckin' with a muthafucken mind
I figured you wanted to know
You know
Why we call them hos bitches
And maybe this might help you understand
It ain't personal
Strictly business baby
Strictly business


So if you wonder why we call u bitch
You wonder why we call u bitch
If you wonder why we call u bitch
You wonder why we call u bitch




Now, if you still don't understand why the term "bitch" is used by rap artists, then you will never know. I pray that people pay attention to those lyrics and hopefully they will understand. Why do I think they won't even pay attention?

 

[Tickle Fiend]

1) It demeans women. Weather the women in the video know it, or care they are being degraded by thugs who can put FUCK TRUCK BUCK SUCK all together in a few lines.

2) It is violent, alot of it is violent. It doesn't say "I Came from this, let work together to fix it" it say "If you fuck with me I will get my boys, and shoot up you back yard!"

3) It demean black people, if using the N-word is bad when a white person does it, it should be considered 1,000 x Worse when a black guy says it. When was the last time you heard a white guy say "Yo my Cracker!" or honky or mao or any other sler... nope me niether.

4) I promotes the negatives of the comunity it was porn from. Do you want your kids to grow up to be a gangsta, pimp, or Drug dealer... I don't watch alot of music vids, but when the man say "I've got ho's in different area codes" it doesn't seem very good.

Thats not to say that here hasn't been good rap. Run DMC were cool, Beaty Boys were fun, and Will Smith was very good. But today if your not using 4 letter word, preaching about the "values" of being a thug, or talking trash about women, your stuff doesn't seem to sell.

In the end it just seems like angry music, and when I listen to music I want it to cheer me up. Thats why I listen to to it on my way home from work.

1. If you feel that rap demeans women, that's your opinion. Seeing a women in a rap video wouldn't make me lose respect for them. What some of those women are willing to do to get into a video would make me lose respect for them, but there are women like that trying to get ahead in all work fields.

2.You're somewhat right. All of rap doesn't talk about making things better. But all of it isn't about anything you mentioned. If you listen to a radio station that plays rap you wouldn't hear any of that. There are songs that may be violent, but you exxagerate too much. If you listened to rap you would notice that a lot of songs speak about where they came from and what they have now, especially songs by new artists. You're just pulling lines from your ass and none of it is true.

3. Black people using the N-word is not as bad as when white people say it. It's been said time and time again. When you white people say it it's bad because you're only trying to hurt someone. When black people use it it's used to show affection. If you're not black then you shouldn't be worried about if we say it, as long as you don't. And it's not just with black people and the N- word. I hang with Latino's who use slurs that are associated with their ethnicity all the time. It's different when "one of your own" uses the word as compared to when an "outsider" uses it. And for the record I have heard white people use the word "honky" a lot. It's not a big deal.

4. Do you really think rap is going to cause someone to grow up to be a gangsta, pimp or drug dealer? Don't you think the environment that people grow up in has something to do with it. I've never heard anyone say that they started selling drugs because they heard the song "Dopeman" by NWA. People do these things as a means to survive. It's all about nurture my friend.

And since you think that rappers can't sell records without rapping about certain things, I guess you've never heard of Kanye West. Arguably the best rapper in the game today, he doesn't portray a gangsta image, promote being a thug or "talk trash" about women to sell records.

Yes it may SEEM like angry music to you but thats because you're on the outside looking in. You can turn on a station that plays rap music and be cheerful all day. A lot of rap is feel good music. Just try to know what you are speaking about before you write next time. OK?

 

[nostradamas]

So Why is it O.K...

for some guys (like PrimeTime)
to post the "N" word over and over

and by "N" i mean ...well, you know.

But if I post the "W" word
and by "W" i mean Wigger.

I'm in a world of shit.

I could state the obvious.
Like some people have the right to post certain words, that other people don't.

It's a double-standard. And stupid.

Like this whole thread, it's is a trap.

"What do you hate about Rap-HipHop???"
Just so you can "correct" and "educate" people.

What you are really doing is FORCING your views upon the masses.

Anyone who disagrees with you is "ignorant".


OK, we get it, now fucking STOP already.

 

[primetime]

But see, it's people like you that need to be educated. Since you obviously do not pay attention to things, let me give you a history lesson. Ever since this forum started, people have constantly criticized rap, even when their criticism wasn't asked for. People (like you), always just seem to make asinine comments about rap, which always strikes a nerve with others. So, yeah, I made this thread so I can educate people. I am simply doing the exact same thing "rap haters" do in other rap music threads.

Now Nostradamus, do you have anything to say about the music itself or are you going to post about something that isn't even about the topic? Let's see if you can figure it out.

And no, I won't stop.....

Why should I when in the Politics forum, people give their opinions forever. I don't see you crying there...

 

[Tickle Fiend]

for some guys (like PrimeTime)
to post the "N" word over and over

and by "N" i mean ...well, you know.

But if I post the "W" word
and by "W" i mean Wigger.

I'm in a world of shit.

I could state the obvious.
Like some people have the right to post certain words, that other people don't.

It's a double-standard. And stupid.

Like this whole thread, it's is a trap.

"What do you hate about Rap-HipHop???"
Just so you can "correct" and "educate" people.

What you are really doing is FORCING your views upon the masses.

Anyone who disagrees with you is "ignorant".


OK, we get it, now fucking STOP already.

When you used the word "wigger" you were directing it at a member of this forum. If you don't want the N-word used, I understand. I'm not going to use it outright because it could make some people feel uncomfortable. Howevevr, I have no problem if Primetime or any other black person uses it.

This thread is not a trap. You people have made comments that have educated me. I now realize that a lot of you dislike rap for reasons that are untrue and/or exxagerated. We're not forcing our views on anyone. Anyone who reads and participate's in this thread is doing so by choice. No one is forcing you to read anything in this thread or on this site. People aren't ignorant because they disagree. People prove they're ignorance ON THIS SUBJECT through their comments. The people who have expressed their complaints about rap don't know what they are talking about for the most part.

 

[Mastertank1]

My Black friends used to adress me as Nigger

When you used the word "wigger" you were directing it at a member of this forum. If you don't want the N-word used, I understand. I'm not going to use it outright because it could make some people feel uncomfortable. Howevevr, I have no problem if Primetime or any other black person uses it.

This thread is not a trap. You people have made comments that have educated me. I now realize that a lot of you dislike rap for reasons that are untrue and/or exxagerated. We're not forcing our views on anyone. Anyone who reads and participate's in this thread is doing so by choice. No one is forcing you to read anything in this thread or on this site. People aren't ignorant because they disagree. People prove they're ignorance ON THIS SUBJECT through their comments. The people who have expressed their complaints about rap don't know what they are talking about for the most part.

Way back in the sixties, many of my Black friends addressed me as Nigger, just as they did each other. I took it as a sign of respect and acceptance.
I noticed that when they were talking to pompous white liberals, they would often adress them as Bro; at the time, it was an in group signal that this was a person to be bullshitted. I was the only white person I ever heard them greet with the words, "Hey, Nigger, where you been?" or like that. Still, I never used that word back to them; I felt it would have been presumptuous on my part. At the time, I felt that they were honoring me by addressing me that way. I fought and shed my blood side by side with them, and I taught martial arts and firearms marksmanship to their kids.
I was told that the difference between me and those liberals was that I backed up my big mouth by putting my butt in harm's way, and they never would.
Mitch

 

[Tickle Fiend]

Way back in the sixties, many of my Black friends addressed me as Nigger, just as they did each other. I took it as a sign of respect and acceptance.
I noticed that when they were talking to pompous white liberals, they would often adress them as Bro; at the time, it was an in group signal that this was a person to be bullshitted. I was the only white person I ever heard them greet with the words, "Hey, Nigger, where you been?" or like that. Still, I never used that word back to them; I felt it would have been presumptuous on my part. At the time, I felt that they were honoring me by addressing me that way. I fought and shed my blood side by side with them, and I taught martial arts and firearms marksmanship to their kids.
I was told that the difference between me and those liberals was that I backed up my big mouth by putting my butt in harm's way, and they never would.
Mitch

Today anybody can be a "nigga." I've used the word when speaking to blacks, whites, hispanics, asians...whoever...I've had hispanic and asian friends who used the word and I didn't think anything of it. It can be used toward anyone you are close with, it's just not accepted when white people use it.

 

[Mastertank1]

That I can easily understand

Today anybody can be a "nigga." I've used the word when speaking to blacks, whites, hispanics, asians...whoever...I've had hispanic and asian friends who used the word and I didn't anything of it. It can be used toward anyone you are close with, it's just not accepted when white people use it.

I would never use it myself. I can see it being okay for anyone of color, used as a term of solidarity, but not okay for one of those who originally used it as a derogatory term.
Mitch

 

[Goodieluver]

Im surprised this worthless flame thread is still open

Whatever

"The Gods made heavy metal, and they saw that it was good"

 

[primetime]

Yeah, the use of the word "nigga" has been spread throughout the minorities in America. I have actually heard a Mexican kid calling a Samona kid "my nigga". It is used as a term of endearment. Amazing how the word loses its luster amongst minorities, but if a white person uses it, a whole different story.

And Goodie, if you don't like the thread, then goodbye... People like you won't change anyway. This thread has hopefully showed others that rap music is in fact music and not all of it is "violent".

 

[Grimgor]

I despise rap for many reasons. Firstly, im a hard core metal head. Secondly, its not really music. Its an idiot who cant speak English trying to cash in on the fact that kids are stupid and like the idea of a life where they can beat people up... The genre of music is breeding a generation of pop culture drones who dont give a shit about anything but themselves. I understand how rap can be appealing because it speaks to the streets. Its a pity that so many rappers are just terrible song writers. If that would change it would be more appealing. In any case, im all for rock n roll.

 

[Tickle Fiend]

I despise rap for many reasons. Firstly, im a hard core metal head. Secondly, its not really music. Its an idiot who cant speak English trying to cash in on the fact that kids are stupid and like the idea of a life where they can beat people up... The genre of music is breeding a generation of pop culture drones who dont give a shit about anything but themselves. I understand how rap can be appealing because it speaks to the streets. Its a pity that so many rappers are just terrible song writers. If that would change it would be more appealing. In any case, im all for rock n roll.

Rap speaks to the world. Kanye West, Lupe Fiasco, the Game, Common...all rappers, all speak english. Funny that you would come in here calling a group of people idiots while you make an idiotic statement. I think you're just jealous that rap is much more popular than your precious heavy metal.

 

[primetime]

Grimgor, are you serious? Now, I like some heavy metal songs (Metallica's "Enter the Sandman" is a damn good song), but you of all people should know what is like for your genre of music to get criticized unfairly. You talk about rap artist being idiots and like to beat people up. Like Heavy Metal promotes a lot of peaceful images......

You also know nothing about rap if you think the most highly successful rap artists are terrible song writers. Ice Cube, 2pac and even Eminem are some of the greatest rap song writers ever. Some of their music is "violent", but they also have others that a very thought provoking. Learn about it before you make a dumb statement like that...

 

[Romanzu]

Wow...

There have been many things said here. I'll have to admit, I'm nowhere near the level of debate many of the people who have already posted on this thread are. However, there are many points -on both sides- that I must agree with. For starters, "Gangsta rap" is about as close to the roots of rap as the top of a two thousand foot tree. Thanks be to Mastertank for that enlightening piece on the origins of rap(though I have to admit, he's got quite a 'mastery of words' himself. Just that post had me reeling a bit). Much of it is foul, and soured with the image of glorified violence and drug use.

However... Many people have brought up the good side of rap/hip hop. The artistic style does exist, and some have done it great justice. I'm not going to mention names, since that would spark more debate than understanding(I'm risking enough simply posting in this thread, now aren't I?), however, that doesn't mean there aren't many.

As for disagreeing with certain sides of the genre, I readily agree. There is plenty of garbage out there. But that's not just with rap, and much of this 'garbage' is simply a matter of opinion. Robace brought up that he doesn't enjoy punk rock. That's his opinion, and he's fully entitled to it. I happen to enjoy it, and I'm not offended by his statement at all. I have a distaste for many songs, groups, and artists, but that doesn't mean I think that everyone who enjoys them is wrong for it.

Now, I think I've posted enough controversial argument for one thread. I guess I'll be hearing no end to this, but I stand by my statements. Though I'm sure that no one opinion will be the end all solution to this dispute.