Marriage.. Relationship.., No..

[rhiannon]

if he cannot take care of himself

Of course. Himself! But he usually doesn't need to provide for HER, or he shouldn't have to. The pregnancy-thing - where I live, a woman is pretty much taken care of being pregnant without a guy, too, and I know a friend of mine who lives in the states just had a baby and is still working.

I mean - what if the guy drops dead tomorrow? Or gets so sick he can't work anymore? Modern women take care of themselves.

I agree with you though that the guy should be able to take care of himself before a woman would even be attracted to him - but not because she needs him to take care of her, because she doesn't want to have to take care of him! 🙂

 

[BellybTickler]

Ding Ding Ding .. Round 1

 

[Leo tickles]

In a relationship with or without children, both parties should provide evenly. I understand the whole arguments about women and men... but in my opinion both should have something to contribute and both parties should be ready to pick up the slack if something like job loss or what not happens. And that was a really long sentence, and I don't care. 😀

 

[rhiannon]

In a relationship with or without children, both parties should provide evenly. I understand the whole arguments about women and men... but in my opinion both should have something to contribute and both parties should be ready to pick up the slack if something like job loss or what not happens.

Exactly! The times where men had to provide for their wives are just over.

 

[Mitchell]

GQ, just so you know.. I would never live off a woman. If I didnt have a job, I wouldnt marry her.

This thread is so fucking exhausting. How does anyone know what job I'll get? Have I gotten to NY yet? No. Right now I'm living in the graveyard of my life, a place I moved to, where my dreams were going to come true. Life wasnt as expensive as NY. The pace was slower. I was working a company that would make me much money. My mom and i would be happy. Instead, every conceivable nightmare happened to me here, from my business failing, to the end of my relationship with my best friend, to my mom getting sick and dying.

I dont expect any of that to mean anything to anyone. The attacks will continue. As I said, fuck it. I'll say what my father said to my mom is his letter to her last summer. BRING IT ON BABY! Come June 1, none of this will matter anymore.

Mitch

 

[GQguy]

Rhiannon I never said women can't provide for themselves. They can and do. "the days of men providing for women are over". Flatly untrue. 14% of households in the US have stay at home mom's not to count the households where the mother is underemployed. Whether we like it or not a man's attractiveness is directly related to his ability to provide for his family. A couple should give 50% 50% but that does not mean financially. My girlfriend lives with me and I support her. Simply she wouldn't be able to enjoy the lifestyle she does if I had not made the hard sacrifices to provide.

I'm not saying women need men to provide. No no no. A. Growing number of that 14% quoted above are women that had careers and college degrees and quit to stay with the kids. Those women sure are glad they are with men that can provide.


A man that cannot provide for himself is not ready for marriage. A man that does not have the future potential to take car of his kids does not need to worry about marriage.


If a man is very serious about getting into a relationship and isn't independent the best thing he can do is become independent. This goes for the 18 year guy to the 60 year old guy. The theme remains the same.

Man!! I wish money wasn't a factor in dating! Again go to match.com and creat two profiles. One where the guy makes 6 figures and the other where he makes $20k. You'll be surprised by how many responses the 6 figure guy got vs the $20 k. Can you explain the disparity?

GQ

 

[GQguy]

Mitch, you're going to do what you're going to do. Attacking you would bear what fruit? We're just chatting.

 

[Mitchell]

Right now, looking at my life, you know what I really want to do? Die. No, do not take that to mean that I'm going to kill myself. I wouldnt kill myself in my mom's memory. I know that if i kill myself, all of my mom's 42 years of love and effort are down the drain then. Nor would I want to do it to give my father satisfaction. If I killed myself, he would shed two tears at my funeral, and he and everyone else would say how fucked up I was. I'm going to fight through it, suffer, live, and somehow come out the other side.

Mitch

 

[rhiannon]

A couple should give 50% 50% but that does not mean financially.

Agreed. But I still believe that both parts in a relationship should be able to provide for themselves (very important if you look at the rate at which relationships fail nowadays) and for the family if needed. If children come into the game, I also believe one partner should, if at all possible, stay home at least until the children are old enough for school. I wouldn't have children if that wasn't possible. All I am saying is that it shouldn't have to be the woman. It should be whoever makes less money in the relationship.

 

[GQguy]

Rhiannon, agreed.

GQ

 

[Bohemianne]

A man that cannot provide for himself is not ready for marriage. A man that does not have the future potential to take car of his kids does not need to worry about marriage.

It's like going to a big war. One must be VERY equipped.

 

[BellybTickler]

DINGING Round 2

 

[Mitchell]

A message for the trolls and others who have attacked me in this thread...

Think back.. two plus years, from the time my mom was diagnosed.. in March 2010, until she passed away on April 4 of this year... Except for the "Demonic Letter" thread about the letter my father sent my mother last summer.. what other rants.. or problematic threads have I posted? I gave updates about my mom's condition, prognosis, etc, but I didnt post any inflammatory threads.

This thread was random, and posted without really thinking. I've just lost my mother, a little more than three weeks ago. I'm living in the apartment amongst her things, that are now mine.. a place that I've lived for 13 years. I've reconciled with my father and his family. I've seen and spoken to people who I havent in 20 years.. and.. I'm moving back to NY, to do new work, and live in a much more expensive place, that will be a fraction of the size I'm living in now. .. Additionally, while my mom was sick and dying, I dealt with it all alone for more than two years, with no family support, not to mention that I was told she was "cancer free" in October 2011, only to see her cancer return as brain cancer less than four months later, and to see her pass away six weeks after the brain cancer was found.

Not lamenting, crying, bitching, or making up excuse.. FACTS!

As I've posted before, my father, who rarely has anything good to say or think about me, has told me he thinks I'm handling it very well.

Bottom line: I dont think anyone on this forum, especially the people who are not well meaning, who posted vicious, judgemental things, would know how they would react if they were in my shoes.

So.. I posted a thread saying I dont want a relationship or marriage. Kniow what, BFD! There are people who havent been through what I have, who dont want to marry. I probably should have not thought about a thread like this now.

People who read this thread, knowing what I've been through, really should have observed the "Golden Rule", and thought "Maybe Mitch is just having a bad day. Let me see if I can say something supportive, or I'll just click off the thread, so I dont make things worse". They (Especially one or two that I'm thinking of off the top of my head, couldnt do that, because they have to attack, for any reason, and wish me terrible things.. or make terrible predictions.

Those people';s reactions, are .. to me, worse than the thread itself.

Whatever, I dont expect anything to change. As for me, my profile says "Lancaster, PA for now". Thats how I feel about how I've been treated by certain people on this site. I'm here for now. I want to say that I appreciate the support I've gotten from those who have given it, but I dont appreciate being attacked, constantly, by the same few.. who do the same things over and over again, without consquence for their actions.

Mitch

 

[Bohemianne]

DINGING Round 2

Ahem... Mr. Referee, how do you score this... 2 par per keyboard hit or by 1-UP? Otherwise, you must show me the ring, in braille. 😀

 

[BellybTickler]

Ahem... Mr. Referee, how do you score this... 2 par per keyboard hit or by 1-UP? Otherwise, you must show me the ring, in braille. 😀

Well Boh ..

Mitch has certainly lost control of his thread and he's really got to step up his game in the coming posts if he wants to maintain a strong lead in the division.

GQ has thrown some hammer punches to Rhiannon but she's fought back hard, making it a tough call to see how who will win this battle.

Of course there is always the Ace in the Hole with Leo, he could prove a major wild card in this race for the Gold.

We'll be back with more coverage on today's events, following a message from our sponsors, back to you Bohemianne 😀.

 

[Bohemianne]

Well Boh ..

Mitch has certainly lost control of his thread and he's really got to step up his game in the coming posts if he wants to maintain a strong lead in the division.

GQ has thrown some hammer punches to Rhiannon but she's fought back hard, making it a tough call to see how who will win this battle.

Of course there is always the Ace in the Hole with Leo, he could prove a major wild card in this race for the Gold.

We'll be back with more coverage on today's events, following a message from our sponsors, back to you Bohemianne 😀.

^ Bwahahahahahaha! RRRRiiiight!!! Eloquently loud and clear. And thank you for the non-braille explanation. Back to the '/thread'.

 

[rhiannon]

Mitch, seriously: Why do you even care what people on a forum who never met you and probably never will meet you think and say? If all the people around you think you are handling it well, why leaving yourself open to attacks of people who, no matter how long you've wrote to them and discussed with them, will remain strangers to you?

 

[rhiannon]

GQ has thrown some hammer punches to Rhiannon but she's fought back hard, making it a tough call to see how who will win this battle.

We agreed, so it's a tie. 🙂

 

[GQguy]

It is a tie. Nice try bellybutton!

GQ

 

[Mitchell]

rhiannon, thank you. My answer to that is.. I dont know. I cant answer it myself.

Mitch

 

[Leo tickles]

rhiannon, thank you. My answer to that is.. I dont know. I cant answer it myself.

Mitch

Because you seek constant praise.

Mystery solved, next.

 

[Mitchell]

Ah, no, Leo. My mom, may she rest in peace, used to criticize decisions I made all the time. Seeing my father, staying with the forum, keeping certain friendships. I never reacted to her the way I have reacted in this thread, because I knew she always meant well. That is more than I can say for at least a few/some of the posters in this, and other, threads.

Mitch

 

[GQguy]

Because you seek constant praise.

Mystery solved, next.

True. But that is to get on his good side. I think he likes the constant attention that the forum can provide. In real life no one can sit there and blame everyone else for their shortcomings without it getting old fast, and everyone abandoning you. Here on the forum you have tons of fresh new members not familiar with the story, the threads and the trends so they can feel sorry for him anew. Of course those that are fooled like myself eventually get tired of it, but a fool is born everyday. It's attention. Even when the conversation moved away from him he tries to steer it back to himself talking about death. Positive attention negative attention it doesn't matter. Anything is preferable than the loneliness he no doubt creates in his own life by blaming everyone for his life situation. But even here it's gotten old. This is why.



The real question is...why do we continue to post in these threads?

Part of it is wanting to see him make it. He's not a bad guy. Just clueless, naive and sheltered. We think that "this post will get to him, and he'll get it. he'll finally take control of his life".

Part of it is there is a bit of Mitch inside of all of us. We once thought like him. But we were teenagers. Most teenagers blame their parents for everything, but then they mature and realize that they are in control. Some do great things with that knowledge. Some self destruct. Some never got the memo and have never gotten to live life.

Part of it is pity. Not that his situation deserved pity. Most of us wish we had an upbringing like Mitch. Maybe that's it. Seeing someone that has it all squander his life away is disturbing. I once read an article written by a white college educated guy that went to jail for a few years for armed robbery. When the hardened Hispanic and black guys found out he was college educated they actually expressed pity for him. Crazy right? These guys who had no fathers, no high school education, could barely read, seen death since they were born and have zero shot at success after jail felt sorry for the college educated white kid from the middle class. He thought he'd be bullied, instead they just shook their heads and *sighed*. It's one thing to never get a shot.....it's another thing to get a shot, and to drop the ball. I think that's part of it.

Being a man. Seeing a man not living life to the fullest. Being a man is great! Scratch that....being master of your own destiny is great! This is not gender specific. Being in control of what you do, and what you do with your life is a liberating thing. It's what life is all about. Seeing someone miss out on that is very sad and depressing.

It hits close to home. My baby brother just hit me up saying that my middle brother has a job. I think he's lying. He's still mooching off mom and dad and likely lying about having a job so he can use my and dad's car. I've served our country for 7 years and he hasn't had a real paycheck or worked in that same amount of time living off of mom and dad. Oh right, there was that MLM that was supposed to make him a millionaire. Yeah, I don't feel so hot about grown capable men living off their aging parents that have worked their asses off. Very hot subject for me.

Some points are obviously personal. Some I am speaking for the group. This is why threads like these are so popular.

I'm sure Mitch thinks these threads are about him but they're not. If he left the forum and another guy/girl came here complaining about their life, blamed everything on everyone else and wasn't willing to do what we've all done to make our lives better, we'd try and convince them too to take that first step towards independence. It would start off nice, then terse, then blunt then annoyed if the person persisted on blame and excuses. It would go to encouragement as the person took steps toward that independence and progress.

"It's not about what you've done. It's about what you're doing. It's all about where you're going, no matter where you've been. Hey it's now or never. Let's make it happen *heart*"
-RaeLynn- <--stole this from my friend's facebook. Captures the essence of marriage after a rough spot in one's life perfectly.


GQ

 

[Leo tickles]

True. But that is to get on his good side. I think he likes the constant attention that the forum can provide. In real life no one can sit there and blame everyone else for their shortcomings without it getting old fast, and everyone abandoning you. Here on the forum you have tons of fresh new members not familiar with the story, the threads and the trends so they can feel sorry for him anew. Of course those that are fooled like myself eventually get tired of it, but a fool is born everyday. It's attention. Even when the conversation moved away from him he tries to steer it back to himself talking about death. Positive attention negative attention it doesn't matter. Anything is preferable than the loneliness he no doubt creates in his own life by blaming everyone for his life situation. But even here it's gotten old. This is why.



The real question is...why do we continue to post in these threads?

Part of it is wanting to see him make it. He's not a bad guy. Just clueless, naive and sheltered. We think that "this post will get to him, and he'll get it. he'll finally take control of his life".

Part of it is there is a bit of Mitch inside of all of us. We once thought like him. But we were teenagers. Most teenagers blame their parents for everything, but then they mature and realize that they are in control. Some do great things with that knowledge. Some self destruct. Some never got the memo and have never gotten to live life.

Part of it is pity. Not that his situation deserved pity. Most of us wish we had an upbringing like Mitch. Maybe that's it. Seeing someone that has it all squander his life away is disturbing. I once read an article written by a white college educated guy that went to jail for a few years for armed robbery. When the hardened Hispanic and black guys found out he was college educated they actually expressed pity for him. Crazy right? These guys who had no fathers, no high school education, could barely read, seen death since they were born and have zero shot at success after jail felt sorry for the college educated white kid from the middle class. He thought he'd be bullied, instead they just shook their heads and *sighed*. It's one thing to never get a shot.....it's another thing to get a shot, and to drop the ball. I think that's part of it.

Being a man. Seeing a man not living life to the fullest. Being a man is great! Scratch that....being master of your own destiny is great! This is not gender specific. Being in control of what you do, and what you do with your life is a liberating thing. It's what life is all about. Seeing someone miss out on that is very sad and depressing.

It hits close to home. My baby brother just hit me up saying that my middle brother has a job. I think he's lying. He's still mooching off mom and dad and likely lying about having a job so he can use my and dad's car. I've served our country for 7 years and he hasn't had a real paycheck or worked in that same amount of time living off of mom and dad. Oh right, there was that MLM that was supposed to make him a millionaire. Yeah, I don't feel so hot about grown capable men living off their aging parents that have worked their asses off. Very hot subject for me.

Some points are obviously personal. Some I am speaking for the group. This is why threads like these are so popular.

I'm sure Mitch thinks these threads are about him but they're not. If he left the forum and another guy/girl came here complaining about their life, blamed everything on everyone else and wasn't willing to do what we've all done to make our lives better, we'd try and convince them too to take that first step towards independence. It would start off nice, then terse, then blunt then annoyed if the person persisted on blame and excuses. It would go to encouragement as the person took steps toward that independence and progress.

"It's not about what you've done. It's about what you're doing. It's all about where you're going, no matter where you've been. Hey it's now or never. Let's make it happen *heart*"
-RaeLynn- <--stole this from my friend's facebook. Captures the essence of marriage after a rough spot in one's life perfectly.


GQ

Yep. At one point or another I've decided that Mitch's story can be about me as much as it is about him. IE: I can do everything he isn't to secure a good future for myself. I can also look at the different perspectives offered by everybody who posts in these threads to help me along with my own problems that I may be having. Replace angry dad with angry girl, or need to move with need to go to work. With a little imagination, all of these become very interchangeable to me.

In a way, it lets me see answers to important things in life without ever having to ask the questions. I'm not saying it's all about me now and forget Mitch, but if he won't use words of advice given by others that make perfect and complete sense, I will.

 

[Mitchell]

What all you great people (Ahem) Leo, GQ, etc, who are standing in judgement of me dont realize, is that there are certain times in people's lives of transition, where certain things arent possible. '

Job? K, how would I get there? In NY, I can take subway, bus, taxi, walk etc. I cant do that here. Driver is too expensive.

Angry girl? Why would I want an angry girl? Why would I involve myself with anyone in Lancaster when I know I'm going to be moving in a matter of weeks? Right now I need to get my apartment cleaned, sorted, packed, and get out of here. Girl comes later. If I want it, at my discretion, (read this) WHEN i'M READY! Oh, wait, I forgot, that's right, I should have been packed already, because, one of the genuises who posts in this thread, who always attacks me, knows exactly the condition of my apartment, and how long it should/will take me.

This is also my time of mourning after two years of dealing with my mom's illness alone. Oh wait, I forgot, thats right.. the posters on this forum are going to give me the deadline of when I can be finished mourning. So when should that have been? The day they laid my mom to rest? The day I came home from NY? Just how long do I get?

I already said two thousand times.. this was an ill advised thread. To those who are judging me. I have one thing to say., Jesus Fucking H Christ already.

If you're not standing in my shoes, I dont think any of you have a right to tell me how long to mourn. That will have to be up to me.

Mitch